Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

topic posted Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:45 AM by  babsia
From Mrs. Summerson (Ammy):

In the real world, there's Evangline's in Old Sacramento. From September through Halloween, they have the costume mansion open, and it's no crappy Spirit shop. Nope. They have lots of nice stuff. They have multiple styles of parasols. They have pocket watches for $12.95. They have gloves for men and women. You won't find a Dickens costume there, but you will find accessories. My personal favorite find on this year's pilgrimage was 50's style crinolines for $14. The best price I'd found online was $38, so this was a treat. Also, I found the gorgeous pair of heels I was wearing yesterday. It's a weird mix of traditional crappy Halloween costumes and some really nice stuff. In years past, they've gotten used tail coats from the local tux shops and sold them off for $39 apiece.

As for online, there's a lot.

For the gents, I've had excellent luck with the prices and selection at the Wild West Mercantile. Beyond that, they've got great customer service. I once had a question on which size to order, so I called up, and they got out a measuring tape and gave me exact measurements so that I could choose with confidence. Get on their mailing list for deals on shipping and frequent sales. Their Bargain Corral almost always has a nice pair of trousers or a non-pointed waistcoat.
www.wwmerc.com/cgi-bin/Category.cgi

The boots mentioned yesterday are Justin Lacers paddock boots. Searching for Justin Lacer gets the best results on eBay:
search.ebay.com/search/search.dll
The beauty thing about these boots is that they come in a range of colors. Right now there are blue, burgandy, black, purple and red available. Cynthia got a pair in green. They're good sturdy boots that look period and won't leave your feet in agony after a day of fair.

Corsets. I have had the pleasure of a Dark Garden corset in the past, but I shrunk out of it, and couldn't possibly afford their current rates. At Baycon one year, I stumbled across the chap who sells Timeless Trends corsets. For $99, it's the most well-made item you'll ever find in its price range. It's an underbust corset, which isn't technically correct, but it does give you much more of the Victorian silhouette than you can achieve with any other inexpensive option.
www.timeless-trends.com/
Once in a blue moon, they have clearance corsets for as little as $49, but don't count on it happening in time for Dickens.

As previously mentioned, Cumberland River Sutlery has dresses in waist size 24-50 inches. My simple dress was just $99, and looks to be just the sort of workhorse I need.
shop.vendio.com/victoriana...e/home.html
For Dickens, the simple day/camp dress is best. Do not get a ball gown.

Beyond that, scrounge through your local thrift store for shawls and scarves and other touches to make your costumes come to life. Remember, you need a hat and coat/shawl to leave the warehouse and go out into the rest of the fair (because it's cold outside silly!). Don't forget about those details when you're putting things together.
posted by:
babsia
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

    Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:45 AM
    From Susanne:

    The other "real-world" site I will add, for the gentlemen much more than the ladies, is Golden Gate Western Wear on san pablo in richmond.
    I've outfitted 3 gentlemen there, two of larger size. Be prepared as they are rather spendy, but they have good shirts, fairly good waistcoats, and good frock coats (mostly wahmaker), and GREAT pants, as well as accessories.
    • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

      Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:46 AM
      And to this I will add that WWMerc has most of the same items, but you can take prices with you to GG Western Wear, compare, and try things on, and then you can decide whether or not it's a big enough price difference to order online. Frequently, the price difference isn't enough to make it worth ordering online, and being able to try stuff on is priceless.

      Ammy
    • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

      Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:46 AM
      Im not as thrilled with Wild West Merchantile as Ammy is. I guess knowing what the coats and vests are really supposed to look like ruins it for me a bit. The only thing that I feel is a really good deal there is the pants. Here is my advice on men's wear since that seems to be where we are focused for them moment.

      Lower class
      Coat = thrift
      Vest = thrift
      Shirt = thrift
      Pants = WWM or thrift

      Middle/upper class
      Coat = Selix (or other) then save for a nice coat Vest = thrift or save Shirt = thrift Pants =thrift or save

      Its very possible to modify a well purchased thrift garment into something that looks as good or better than the things from WWM at a fraction of the cost and without the risk that someone will have ordered the same thing that you did.

      Dont forget that there are 6 or more venders that will be selling at workshops each with different selection. There is a lot to be found so do not despair if you cant sew and have no interest in thrifting.

      The dress that Ammy purchased looks like a really good deal but I reserve my recommendation until I see if it lasts the season and fits well.

      Thank you all for your time.

      Barbara
      Mrs. Darney
      • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

        Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:47 AM
        From Susanne:

        I agree that the lines of the Wahmaker frock coats are not exact, but at least (some of) the waistcoats are higher-buttoning. the points-or-straight thing I think is a minor quibble. *ducks*

        the only thing that i usually caution on is the shirts - make sure not to buy the more outrageous prints, nor the weirder neck/button lines, etc.

        On the other hand, most of us know how point-device Mr. Darney always looks. ;-D
        • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

          Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:48 AM
          Persephone put up a nice site with a lot of information about Victorian style, with note on how it changed over four decades. There are some good pictures to illustrate certain styles; for example:

          dressingup.info/item141.html

          However, this wealth of information does not directly address the questions below (in a pinch: just what will pass costume approval?). As was mentioned before, the approval process is sometimes arbitrary when skating the line of correctness, so I must defer to Susanne and Mrs.
          Darney to answer. (I will mention that Mrs. Darney gave a very good overview of Men's fashion after rehersal last weekend, to an audience of
          two.)

          As a previous poster suggested, perhaps some of this information could be collected for the fezziwiki or Persephone's site... I couldn't find the fezziwiki; google was no help, and there is no link on fezziwigs.org, oh my!

          - Greg, "point-device", with help. ;)
          • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

            Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:23 AM
            From Laura:

            While we're discussing the matter, I keep meaning to spread the word about this place, and forgetting.
            Please check out the Vermont Country Store:
            www.vermontcountrystore.com/

            Now mind you, while they have lots of old timey stuff, a lot of it isn't period for us. In fact, a good portion of it is totally useless, and mostly targeted at people above the age of 70.
            That said, they have mens red cotton union suits, button suspenders, shaving mugs, Greek fisherman hats (perfect for lower class folk), a plethora of handkerchiefs both for gents and ladies, and some nice Victorian-oid ladies nightdresses.

            (And for those of us that do swing-era, they've got men's 30's-50's style yoked briefs, period double razors, and lots of vintage-y hairstyling stuff.)

            They've also got props up the wazoo. Real ostrich feather featherdusters, vintage candies in tins of all descriptions, Matelasse bedspreads, and mechanical apple peeler/corers.

            Sadly, it looks like they no longer carry their fob-style nurse's watch, with the upside down face. :(

            -Laura
            • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

              Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:26 AM
              From Susanne:

              to answer waistcoat ('weskit') questions to the best of my poor ability:

              Points on men's waistcoats aren't a class thing, they're a history thing. I'm going to go out on a limb, expecting full correction from Barbara and Mr. Seeley, and say that points at the bottom are a turn-of-the-century thing. even the more casual sack suits that come in in the 1880s have straight-across waistcoats.

              They are usually collared, either shawl or notched-lapel. that collar usually continues around to the back, that is, doesn't end flattened into the shoulder seam, the way many modern vests are built.

              Modern vests also button low, compared to waistcoats. they should button to about mid-sternum, or nipple height. :-D you can actually take thrift-store vests and reblock the lapels to roll higher, and add a button or two, to make a 'proper' Victorian waistcoat.

              Single or doublebreasted.

              metal, wooden, or fabric-covered buttons (or those round leathery ones you always find on tweed suits, I suppose.)

              They can be more decorative than the surrounding suit - if you're lower-class, don't go crazy with the silks, or consider deliberately mismatching (or losing) a button or few. if you're a packer, consider denim/canvas (these are online at WWM or at GGWW if you want to see these vs. brocade styles.)

              as always, final answers should come from Barbara/Mrs. Darney. I expect corrections on any points if needed from her, Lady K, or Mr. Seeley. :-D
              • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

                Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:29 AM
                Susanne answered it beautifully. I had to run off to work where I, unlike most people do not have access to a computer. I would like to add just one thing with regard to vest.

                Especially for the working class gents, try try try to get a vest without an acetate back (slippery shinny "silk" like fabric). It is possible to find vest with the same fabric on the back as on the front and this is preferable for working class gents who will be seen at the werehouse without their coats on. Acetate was invented in the early 1900s and very anachronistic.

                Here is Mr. Darney's waistcoat. It has a cotton back and only the
                smallest V extending up from a strait bottom. This was the beginning of
                points in the 1840s that would be realized in the 1850s and the standard vest much later still. It also has the collar that extends all the way around the back (HTF in modern vests) and the proper shawl collar style (round on the outside, sharp v where the shirt is exposed and closes high.

                www.couturecostume.com/item434.html

                I would also like to second Suzanne's support of Wild West Mercantile and Golden Gate Western Wear for gents who have LARGER fit issues.

                I have never heard of costume approval nixing the Justin lacers because they are leather. What I have heard her/them object to is the speed hooks on the upper part of the boot if they show. These are not period. If you get lacers I would suggest that you take them to a cobbler and have the speed hooks replaced with eyelets weather or not they show. Its very easy to do and the cobbler should charge you only a pittance. I replace them myself and some of you other sew savvy girls may also be able to. In addition to not being period, the speed hooks also have a nasty habit of getting caught in hems and petticoat lace and tearing up your skirts.

                Thank you again.

                Barbara/Mrs. Darney
                • Re: Shoppers Guide to Dickens Costume (emails)

                  Thu, September 27, 2007 - 9:03 AM
                  Hello there - I'd like to introduce myself - I'm Liz Martin and I will be your costume director for this season ( and hopefully may more) at DIckens' this year.
                  I'm not going to say much because it appears that Mrs. Darney has you well under control.
                  Not to meantion the great Mr F!

                  I will say that I would NEVER tell you to buy new boots because of the speed hooks. My Ariat's have those and I have to admit that I never even thought about them! I like the idea of having them replaced with eyelets tho - thank you! : )

                  If you have any questions about a costume and whether or not it is something that I will pass or not - feel free to email me directly at
                  costumes@redbarnproductions.org

                  BTW - there will be our annual Rummage sale at workshops this year. It's a great way to clean out your costume closet (in order to get more stuff). Email me if you would like to participate.

                  I look forward to seeing all of you at workshops and to hopefully- taking a turn on the dance floor with some of you!

                  Until we meet in London -
                  Liz